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Tuesday, May 22, 2007

The Eternal Torment Debate: Does God punish people forever in conscious, eternal torment?

Steve Scianni, Patrick Navas and Dan Mages debated with Gene Cook, Joel Hughes, and Mike Sarkissian on the issue of eternal torment. Does the Bible teach that God torments people in conscious pain for all eternity? Steve, Patrick and Dan argued that the Bible correctly interpreted teaches no such concept. Download the audio on the podcast page of Also check out the post debate discussion which will be episode #13. Let us know your thoughts!


Blogger Michael Ejercito said...

It is plain and clear that the Bible teaches that the damned will be thrown into the lake of fire, and that they will be tormented in the presence of the holy angels and the presence of the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment shall arise forever and ever.

7/05/2007 9:32 AM

Blogger HungerTruth said...


I once had a professor who spoke forever and ever. Have you heard of hyperbole? I suggest you read the first four articles under hell and conditional immortality on the articles page of the religion page on After you do so, I will be really interested in your thoughts.

7/05/2007 11:29 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

“The Lake of Fire Series” (scroll down page a little) is the most comprehensive evaluation of gehenna that I've ever come across. I'd like to know what you think.

7/21/2007 6:22 AM

Blogger HungerTruth said...


Ray has obviously put a lot of time into his site and has answered many questions. There is valuable information there, but it seems mixed in with a considerable amount of mediocre scholarship. Ray seems absolutely sure that he has the absolutely true interpretation. I find this a bit unsettling. How would he know if he ever did? Did God tell him so directly? The texts are ancient and we are left to do the best we can.

If you read the articles on hell and conditional immortality on religion/articles page, I think you will see the difference in quality.

Thanks for the comment and link.

7/21/2007 11:35 AM

Blogger sean said...

Can you say AD HOMONYM? Yikes, the "eternal torture" team was vicious in that they continuously attacked you guyz rather than the topic. What's so ironic is that they should not have been attacking anything considering the fact that they took the affirmative position. Of course they should have been giving constructive arguments for the existence of such a mythological place as Dante's Inferno. I'm sorry you guyz were subject to such public abuse at the hands of people who are obviously not in the same class. I think until one grasps the teaching of Jesus on "loving your enemies," one should not be allowed to debate.

9/09/2007 4:22 AM

Anonymous Dan said...

Ray never claims to know everything. However, he knows what he knows. When one is able to compare scripture to scripture successfully then that person has the truth. Ray, undoubtedly has this ability. Go to

9/25/2007 5:33 PM

Blogger HungerTruth said...


Folks who worship God's who torture people forever without end can at times can reflect that same kind of hostility.


Virtually every student of the Bible compares scripture to scripture. We must learn to carefully weigh evidence and reasons for interpretations that are given. As I said, Ray has certainly put in a lot of work. This by no means secures a perfect interpretation everytime. That is simply not possible. I like much of what he says about hell. Thanks.

9/25/2007 8:48 PM

Blogger Guillaume said...

How refreshing is this place! If I understand well your answer to Sean, you show some understanding to those hostile folks, thank you! I was (and probably I am) one of them...
While listening to the debate I discovered the amazing truth in Revelation 22:15! The people mentionned in this verse will be outside, but still be alive! And in Revelation 21:8 it's only their "part" that is thrown in the lake of fire, not them! Haha!
I did not yet listen to the whole debate and perhaps you already mention those two points somewhere else,if so, sorry for the repetition...

8/05/2012 1:39 AM


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